HOWEDY liea you pathetic miserable stinkin
lyin animal abusin punk thug coward active
acute chronic life long incurable mental case,
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshuler@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ZpCdnRZBIeVgzzLbnZ2dnUVZ_qmlnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> I've been spending more time
> on rec.food.cooking than here.
A WIZE idea, liea, on accHOWENTA every
time you post HERE, The Incredibly Freaking
Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard CITES your
own POSTED CASE HISTORY of HURTIN
dogs an LYIN abHOWET it and EMBARRASSES
YOU into PSYCHOSIS again.
Hey, liea? Speakin of cookin, today was the Pagan
HOWEliday of Lammas. It's the first harvest festival.
Today The Incredibly Freakin Simply Amazing Mrs.
Puppy Wizard prepared a traditional Lammas feast
consisting of lamb broiled in garlic and fresh mint,
baby carrots sauteed in honey and mint an Irish
potato / cabbage cassarole *(I forget the name of it)
and fresh black and red rasberries an strawberries
and cream and shortcake.
> Like every usenet group, they get off topic.
Only when you pathetic miserable stinkin lyin
animal murder psychopaths are havin a PSYCHOTIC
REACTION like you're goin through these days.
> Most recently, they've started talking about how
> all pitbulls are vicious and untrustable
Kinda JUST LIKE HOWE you dog lovers believe.
> and how much they like the idea of
> laws banning them altogether.
You mean INSTEAD of JUST MURDERIN
them on their first grHOWEL at a human, liea?
>They got on this subject when someone's neighbors'
> dog did a topnotch job of cleaning a rotisserie spit
> when it was left out after an outdoor campfire.
Oh? Oh, you mean kinda like HOWE YOU DONE
when your neighbor's Pit Bull ESCAPED her SHOCK
FENCE just like HOWE your own dog Cubbe does,
and followed you on your walk through her neighborhood, liea?
At least her dog doesn't attack innocent defenseless
children you invite in your HOWES and meet at the
park, or attack their own veterinarian or their only
friend like HOWE your own fear aggressive dog
Cubbe done.
Her dog only attacked THE SAME DOG YOU
OWN DOG Cubbe attacked while being jerked
and choked on her pronged spiked pinch choke
collar while under the EXXXPERT CON-TROLL
of your boy-toy jimbo.
REMEMBER, liea?
> I don't want to get into arguing this subject over there,
Well perhaps you SHOULD, liea. You could tell
them all abHOWET your own dog Cubbe attacking
two children and your only friend Ellie when they
stood in Cubbe's SHOCK ZONE when they walked
into your HOWES on your invite.
And you could tell them all abHOWET your own
dog Cubbe attackin a innocent defenseless child
at the park while you was holdin IT on leash and
HOWE you BLAMED the CHILD for sayin
"HOWEDY" "the WRONG WAY"?
And you could tell them all abHOWET HOWE your
own dog Cubbe attacked that elderly dog Chief who
lives DHOWEN the street on accHOWENTA jimbo
was jerkin an chokin her.
And you could tell them all abHOWET HOWE
your own dog Cubbe attacked her own veterinarian
while in your EXXXPERT CON-TROLL?
THEN you could EXXXPLAIN HOWE escapin
your surrHOWEND SHOCK SYSTEM makes
Cubbe GO INSANE and not come when you call
her and you can tell them HOWE she HIDES from
you in the protection of your neighbo's yard with
the Rotweilder in it behind the invisible shock fence?
That way the cookin folks wouldn't MISTAKE YOU
as the pathetic miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin
hypocrite you are, liea.
They'd KNOW you was INSANE.
> but I don't feel like I can stay out of it either.
Of curse not!:
"No power in society, no hardship in your
condition can depress you, keep you down,in
knowledge, power, virtue, influence, but by
your own consent," Wm. Ellery Channing.
Man is inherently vile-but he is never so vile as
when he is trying to disguise and deny his vileness. -
- H.L. Mencken
The men the American people admire most extravagantly
are the most daring liars; the men they detest most
violently are those who try to tell the truth. --
Mencken, H.L.
Whenever A annoys or injures B on the pretense
of saving or improving X, A is a scoundrel.
H.L. Mencken
Explanations exist; they have existed for all times,
for there is always an easy solution to every human
problem -- neat, plausible, and wrong.--
Henry Louis Mencken.
The most common of all follies is to believe
passionately in the palpably not true. It is
the chief occupation of mankind.--
H.L. Mencken
Of all the sentimental errors that reign and rage
in this incomparable Republic, the worst is that
which confuses the function of the critic, whether
aesthetic, political or social, with the function
of reform.
Almost invariably it takes the form of a protest:
"The fellow condemns without offering anything better.
Why tear down without building up?" So snivel the
sweet ones: so wags the national tongue. --
H.L. Mencken
It is a peculiarity of the American mind that it
regards any excursion into the truth as an adventure
into cynicism.
It is a sin to believe evil of others,
but it is seldom a mistake. --
H.L. Mencken
The aim of public education is not to spread
enlightenment at all; it is simply to reduce
as many individuals as possible to the same
safe level, to breed a standard citizenry,
to put down dissent and originality.-- H.L.
Mencken
It is common to assume that human progress affects
everyone-that even the dullest man, in these bright
days, knows more than any man of, say, the Eighteenth
Century, and is far more civilized.
This assumption is quite erroneous. The men of the
educated minority, no doubt, know more than their
predecessors, and of some of them, perhaps, it may
be said that they are more civilized-though I should
not like to be put to giving names-but the great
masses of men, even in this inspired republic, are
precisely where the mob was at the dawn of history.
They are ignorant, they are dishonest, they are
cowardly, they are ignoble.
They know little if anything that is worth knowing,
and there is not the slightest sign of a natural
desire among them to increase their knowledge.
-- H. L. Mencken, "Homo neanderthalis", The Baltimore
Evening Sun, June 29, 1925
The inferior man's reasons for hating knowledge are
not hard to discern. He hates it because it is complex-
-because it puts an unbearable burden upon his meager
capacity for taking in ideas.
Thus his search is always for short cuts.
All superstitions are such short cuts. --
H.L. Mencken
> Could someone direct me to a good, succinct
> online source that sums up clearly why breed
> bans are a bad idea,
Breed bans GOT NUTHIN to do with it, liea.
We've got BREED BANS and BREED SPECIFIC
LEGISLATION thanks to DOG LOVERS like
yourself and the EXXXPERTS here and over at
alt.pets.dogs.pitbull who PREFER to jerk choke
shock bribe crate intimidate an MURDER their
own dogs <{}: ~ ) >
OtherWIZE, if it wasn't for DOG LOVERS like
you EXXXPERTS, A DOG would simply be A
DOG, like your own dog Cubbe, liea.
Don't you know it hurts so good.
Punishment, unfortunately traditionally overused,
actually has been proven not effective at long-
term behavioral change, and creatures will find
other ways of getting what it wants. In "Freedom
and the control of men" American Scholar, Winter
1955-56, 25, 47-65. 1956 B. F. Skinner states:
If we no longer resort to torture in what we call
the civilized world, we nevertheless still make
extensive use of punitive techniques in both
domestic and foreign relations. And apparently for
good reasons. Nature if not God has created man in
such a way that he can be controlled punitively.
People quickly become skillful punishers (if not,
thereby, skillful controllers), whereas alternative
positive measures are not easily learned.
The need for punishment seems to have the support
of history, and alternative practices threaten the
cherished values of freedom and dignity.
Fear involved with punishment causes frustration:
with typical results loathing, hostility and apathy.
Skinner's teaching on the superiority of posittive
reinforcement's benefits for keeping desired behavior
have proved very valuable.
----------------------------
> a source that might be read an
> understood by non-dog people?
You mean, sumpthin like YOUR OWN POSTED
CASE HISTORY as opposed to the hype lies and
idiocy presented by your EXXXPERT pals who
MURDER Pit Bull dogs on their first grHOWEL
at a human, liea?
"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at
the beginning, but we've come a long way since then.
She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?"
"Might Cubbe Be Ready For Harsher Training Techniques?
It Was Horrible! I Let Cubbe Out In The Backyard With
Her Usual ZAP Collar - The 10 Year Old Child Went To
Give Cubbe A Hug + She Gave A Snarl-Snap. I don't even
think she broke the kid's skin and as far as I'm concerned,
it was the kid's own fault."
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...
After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
and the vet agrees.
--Lia
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help:
http://tinyurl.com/fbqnw
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.
From: Mark Shaw (m...@bangnetcom.com)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10 14:12:18 PST
In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@rwcrnsc53>,
"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@home.com> wrote:
>Has anyone had experience with this product (Fido-Shock).
>If so, what model number, voltage, etc.?
If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system,
I have one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers.
> I have a 1.5 year St Bernard who is scaling (not
> clearing -- more like falling over) our 4 foot fence
> to visit with owners walking their dogs. I thought
> of raising the fence a foot or so, but don't think that'll
> solve the problem. I've tried watching her outside,
> and give a stern "NO" when she props on the fence
> for a peek over it. No avail.
>
> I've heard this product works after just a couple of tries.
I take it you're considering running the wire across
the top of the fence? I don't think I'd recommend
that, although it may be worth a try. Watch closely -
- the one case where I saw a hotwire used in this
fashion caused the dog undue stress and frustration,
and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
So be prepared to take it down right away.
That was a Dane, though. With a Saint
things might be different.
--
Mark Shaw
culprit's dogs MURDERED her kat for standin
behind their SHOCK FENCE just like HOWE
liea's dog attacked her only friend and
tried to attack two little kids for standin
in her SHOCK ZONE
"micha el" <spam_yurs...@spamyourmamma.com>
wrote in message
news:yIydnZpPsIzg6l_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...
Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
it felt like to me when I got shocked by
Hope's collar.
It felt like a bomb going off in my
hand and forearm.
From: Tricia9999 (tricia9999@aol.com)
Subject: Re: electronic fences
Date: 2002-11-17 07:15:27 PST
>> how effective are these electronic fences
>> in keeping a dog on a property????
Some run through it. Others get shocked
and become too scared to go out in the
yard anymore. Just heard of a guy that has
to rehome his dog, because the dog
got caught right in the path of the shock
and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.
Just hides under a desk in the house.
They won't keep people or critters off of
your property.
=========
SEE?
If Cubbe was a Pit Bull all your PALS
would be SCREAMIN that you're
RUINING the BREED'S REPUTATION.
> I'd like to direct them to the page, then bow out.
TRY THIS, liea:
http://relinkz.com/WhatCausesPitBullHysteria
If that don't EXXXPLAIN HOWE COME Pit
Bulls GET BLAMED for being aggressive in
defense from their ABUSERS, perhaps your
own POSTED CASE HISTORY will?:
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:35:49 GMT
Subject: Re: How to behave around unknown pit bull
TerrenceS wrote:
> Dog lovers,
> Please consider an encounter I had with a pit bull and
> share any advice you might have on how I could have
> handled it better. I live in the country and like to take
> walks with my two small children (a 1 year old and a
> 2 and a half year old) in a big wheel tricycle type stroller.
>
> Yesterday, we passed in front of a house where a new
> family had moved in within the last month. A pit bull
> is chained in the front yard. This pit bull charged us
> but was restrained by the chain, but another unchained
> pit bull came out and entered the street.
>
> It was pacing back and forth in front of us, barking and
> blocking our way. Two things stood out to me: The dog
> had gone beyond just protecting its yard; it was a pit bull.
>
> If the dog had been a less intimidating breed I might
> have approached it. We stopped while still about thirty
> feet away. The dog started approaching, barking the
> whole time.
>
> I yelled "No" and "Go away" or something like that.
> It ignored this. I decided that I needed to go back the
> way I came. I started to back away pulling the stroller
> backwards. The dog ran around to the other side of me
> blocking the direction from which we had come.
>
> I was still in front of the dog's yard but toward the edge.
> The driveway runs up the edge of the property and the
> dog had blocked the street at about the driveway (I don't
> know if territory is that important).
>
> He was not calming down. I saw spittle flying from his
> mouth. The dog had not gotten closer than ten feet to us
> but appeared to be getting more excited. I stopped moving.
>
> This did nothing to calm him. My two and a half year
> old daughter was starting to cry and I was worried how
> the dog would react if she started screaming. I had a 3
> foot section of a broom stick that I carry on walks but
> did not pull it out.
>
> I wasn't sure how the dog would react. I wasn't sure I
> could fight it off with the stick. I was very worried at
> how exposed my kids were.
>
> Fortunately, a car came along and ran interference for
> me so that I could turn around and go home. I called
> animal control. The dog's owner, who had not been
> home at the time of my encounter, agreed to chain both
> dogs. He said the reason the one had not been chained
> was that he was friendly. The animal control officer said
> that the dog behaved well with him.
>
> If I ever find myself in this type of situation again
> should I act differently? Did I do anything to set
> the dog off? Would pulling out the stick or shouting
> at the dog simply irritate it more?
>
> I don't want to stop going for walks and yet I can't
> endanger my kids. Not passing this house is not an
> option. If I walk at least a mile I will pass this house.
>
> Thanks for any advice,
> Terrence
I have only one bit to add to the excellent advice
others have given you: Often an unlocked car is
a safe space to run to. Or break a window with
a rock, unlock it and jump in with your daughters.
Obviously this is a last resort for when you're
absolutely being attacked. It's not a measure
to take when you're merely scared but not in
any real danger.
The dog lovers here will tell you that keeping
your daughters safe takes first precedence over
being nice to a threatening dog.
--Lia
-----------------------
Yeah. LUCKY THING Pit Bull Dogs
can't JUMP into open car windows...
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@attbi.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 00:03:19 GMT
Subject: neighborhood gossip
My neighbor with the yappy little Schnauzer called me
yesterday with a report of what's going on in the world.
Her house's backyard abuts the backyard with the
Rottweiler and the Pit Bull in it. I've mentioned them before.
*(Cubbe likes to ESCAPE her shock fence and
HIDE from liea in the protection of the Rottie)
Those two stay in their yard because of an invisible
fence; they wear collars that work with it. Naturally
the invisible fence does nothing to keep other dogs
out which apparently has happened twice now. (I've
not seen these incidents; all the news comes to me by
way of my informant.)
The first time it was the exuberant under-exercised
Lab-- Brownie. He got loose of his own yard where
he's sometimes tied during the day, ran over to the
dogs to play and got chewed up pretty badly. A
neighbor was home who was able to make a big
enough noisy disturbance to distract the Rottweiler
long enough to let go and give Brownie a chance to
escape.
The second time was just the other day. A strange
older Rottweiler that none of us had ever seen before
got into the yard. He may even have been the aggressor.
This time someone was home. He physically got out
there and began clubbing one of the dogs. Again the
distraction was enough to give the dog a chance to escape.
That time there were plenty of witnesses. My informant
called 9-1-1, explained that it was between animals but
there was a good chance of a person getting hurt, and the
police were sent out along with the dog control officer.
The older strange Rott was limping away. The animal
control officer said that she'd seen him and didn't think
he was hurt.
The Law can't really do anything. As long as the two
dogs stay in their own yard, the owners aren't breaking
any laws. When the police officer was asked if a toddler
has to be killed before they'll do anything, he answered
that parents are responsible for looking after their own
children and making sure they stay out of other people's
yards.
I've learned that Animal Control isn't a city office.
The whole department consists of a single officer
and is outsourced to the lowest bidder. So the animal
control officer isn't responsible to the police department
or the elected city commission.
I won't even walk by that house anymore which is a
shame because I ought to feel comfortable walking
around my own neighborhood, but I find the body
language of those two dogs too intimidating even if
they do stay behind the invisible fence.
I just feel too vulnerable walking
little Cubbe in front of them.
I'm the dog lover. I hate the idea of any dog getting
hurt in a fight no matter whose yard it is and what
the Law says about property rights.
I'm really just ranting, but I'll ask some
question to make this more on topic.
Is there anything I can do to convince the owners
to put up a physical, real, tall, actual fence short
of paying for it and putting it up for them?
It's the common sense solution to a problem.
As it is, I'm afraid the neighbors will take the law
into their own hands if something isn't done. The
dogs' owner is a vet tech. I've spoken to her. I
believe she sincerely loves her dogs and simply
admires the breeds.
Is there any reason to believe the dogs are a danger to
people? There's incontrovertible evidence that they're
aggressive to other dogs on their own territory.
How scared should I be if they get out of their yard?
--Lia
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@attbi.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:53:31 GMT
Subject: Re: neighborhood gossip-chapter 2
Thanks for this sensible reply. I'm trying to think this through
before I do anything. I believe we're all in agreement that breed
bans are a bad idea because:
1. They're not fair. There could be a Carl type Rottweiler
out there banned along with an aggressive one. (Carl is a
character in a children's book. He's so trustworthy that he
takes care of a baby while her mother is away.)
2. They're not enforceable. If a dog is found or comes
from a shelter, there's really no saying what breed or
breeds it is. There are expert guesses but no real proof.
3. They force the problem elsewhere. If someone wants
an aggressive dog and Rottweilers and Pit Bulls are
banned, all she has to do is get an aggressive German
Shepherd. Then German Shepherds could be banned.
Any dog could be aggressive.
I can see why the neighbors want a breed ban. It takes
care of the immediate problem without affecting a great
many people. If John Doe and Jane Public are living
next door to an aggressive Rottweiler and Pit Bull, then
if they can push through a ban on those two breeds,
they've got their problem solved. Nevermind that there's
a Rorrweiler across town who's doing rescue work.
Better laws for fencing would be a better idea.
Help me figure out the problems with this too. I want
to be aware of all the objections to this proposal before
I write any letters.
I'd like to propose that all dogs either be inside a house,
on a leash or behind a fence (a real, visible, keeps other
dogs and children out fence). Naturally that would be
totally unfair to the dogs who are trustworthy off leash.
It would be unfair to Milo. He lives next door to the
Rottweiler and Pit Bull and is an elderly, mixed breed,
low-key kind of guy. During the day he sleeps on the
sunny porch and might stretch and yawn when someone
approaches.
I wouldn't want his owners to have to put up an expensive
fence. But the truth is that I don't think anyone would call
animal control to complain about him-- unless they were
bent on revenge. Hmm.
Anyway, I'll give the letter writers a call today if only to
tell them that they'll be taken more seriously if they spell
Rottweiler correctly. They've got it as "Rotwieler."
--Lia
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:50:01 GMT
Subject: Re: Today - unhappy conclusion
Shelly & The Boys wrote:
> Yes, and unfortunately, the truly stupid tend to do
> stupid things repetedly. I'm saying this purely out
> of opinion, but since she works in the pet care field
> (Lia said she was a vet tech), most likely she will
> get herself another dog.
At the moment, she still has her Pit Bull. The family
has a history going back to before I moved into the
neighborhood of having dogs that annoy other people.
The mother herself told me about her lab that chased a
neighbor's friends on motorcycles until he got a sort of
restraining order that relegated him to house and leash.
(How funny that these people see as punishment what
the rest of us do anyway, walk our dogs on leashes.)
I'm curious to see what develops next.
--Lia
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 22:40:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Today
Sionnach wrote:
> Yep. And chances are good that legislation would
> negatively affect responsible owners who are doing
> no harm.
>
> IMO, the only sort of legislation that would be
> effective would be a dangerous dog law which
> defines the *behaviour* of these dogs - in particular,
> their demonstrated willingness and ability to do
> serious harm-and the owners' failure to control
> them as illegal.
This is the conclusion I've been coming to. Every time
I try to form in my mind some sort of legislation that
would be both realistic and fair, I hit a dead end.
I don't envy lawmakers. I think of something that
would say something about dangerous dogs having
to be behind fences, but then I'd need a solid definition
of dangerous.
These dogs had only ever attacked before when a dog
wandered on to their property. I could say something
about dogs that neighbors found scary, but then I have
to think that someone somewhere could be afraid of the
friendliest Yorkie.
Size shouldn't be a factor because large dogs can be
gentle giants, and small ones can be aggressive.
Then I start thinking about how all the warning signs
were there in these dogs when you looked at their body
language. That was an accident waiting to happen if
you'll pardon my cliche.
So how do I write body language into legislation?
That would require someone knowledgeable about dogs.
Since Animal Control in this town is one dog officer
under the auspices of the Police Department (and we're
lucky to have that), we don't just need someone who
knows dogs, s/he has to be hired by someone who
knows dogs.
Then consider that the attacking dog's owner is actually
fairly knowledgeable. Granted she's said lots of things
that are contradictory, and her actions belie her words,
but that makes her unstable, not stupid.
I've spoken to her. She got her Rottweiler and Pit Bull
because she likes the breeds. She was sold on the Rott
because she knew one that did rescue work.
(I'm conjuring up pictures of Carl.)
If I heard her speak about the virtues of Rottweilers,
I'd find her compelling enough to give her the job.
Then couple that with the way she never trained or
exercised or spent time with her dog, and you get a
picture of someone who isn't thinking clearly.
On the subject of neighborhood wars-- The funny
thing about wars is that no matter who starts them,
the people in them see themselves as the victim
who didn't start it.
Here's another bizarre statement on the part of the
Rottweiler's owner. Now granted she was crying
as she announced that she was having her dog put
down, and we could say something that doesn't
make sense under those circumstances, but she
said that she wanted to get more Rott puppies
just to piss off the neighbors.
Here the neighbors have been more than reasonable
(from what I can see; there may be more nasitness
beneath the surface), and she sees herself as the victim.
It is all moot now, but the police did know about this
last specific attack. 9-1-1 was called. Before the
announcement of Gruber's imminent death, Chief's
owner was gathering together evidence for some sort
of legal action.
That's why she was at my house.
And here's a funny addition.
She wanted specific dates for the last time Gruber had
gotten out. Since I post here the specifics of anything
doggy that happens in my neighborhood, all I had to
do to supply dates and details was a google search.
I had my testimony all ready including the way I
described it at the time, not the way I remembered
it years later.
Someone mentioned that the attack could have been
on a child-- Yeah, we talked about that too. Before
all this happened, in the same cul-de-sac, a toddler
figured out how to open the front door and was
wandering around, spied Chief on leash and toddled
straight towards them.
My neighbor figured out where he'd come from and
delivered him home where his surprised mother was
grateful and embarrassed to have him back.
If he'd seen the Rott behind that invisible fence and
toddled there instead, you'd all be reading this story
in the national news, not usenet.
--Lia
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 05:39:56 GMT
Subject: Today
Today my neighbor came over close to tears and
spilled out the whole horrible story. She lives in
a cul-de-sac two houses down from a family with
2 large scary looking dogs that are either in the
house or in the yard held with an invisible fence.
One of the dogs got out and attacked her dog who was
on a leash. Her dog will survive, but he's badly hurt.
These are the dogs that the whole neighborhood has
been worried about for several years now. Their
stance and stare is scary as one walks by.
I stopped walking down that street. Easy for me,
I can avoid it. She can't get out without walking by.
Neighbors have complained in the past, but Animal
Control always says that they're not breaking any law.
As long as the dogs stay on the property, there's
nothing they can do or would want to do to prevent
them from giving everyone the heebie jeebies.
On at least 2 occasions, a dog has gotten into their
yard and gotten beaten up pretty badly. The owners
then run outside and begin trying to pull their dogs
off the other one using a cudgel to get their attention.
Since the dogs were on their own property,
no law was broken.
There was the time one of the dogs got out through the
invisible fence and followed me and Cubbe. I wrote
about it 3 years ago. No harm was done then so that
wasn't terribly against the law either.
Technically they're in violation of the leash laws, but
we've all had a dog get off leash now and then so this
wasn't treated as any worse.
This was the first time the 2 were combined-
- dog off property and dog attacks another.
Jo had Chief on a leash for their usual walk. Chief
is a 40 pound Sheltie. When she saw that Gruber
had gotten out of his yard, she screamed for help.
He circled a little before attacking. He got Chief in
his jaw and was shaking him. The owners came out,
did the cudgel thing, managed to separate them.
Jo provided some details here about who bit whom that
I didn't follow. I've never been good at the gory stuff.
Chief was on leash the whole time. Gruber's owners
have offered to pay for Chief's veterinary bills, but
were told rather angrily to put the money towards a
fence.
Apparently Gruber's owner was aware that the
invisible fence was unplugged but didn't consider
that of any great concern.
Chief has bandages on a third of his body. One
puncture wound in particular won't close and
keeps oozing. He lost a nail so one paw is in
bad shape. Mostly he's got lots of punctures
and has lost a lot of blood. He's bruised badly
too. His fur may never grow in right, but he's
long haired, and looks wasn't the reason they
got him.
Jo's main concern is that he'll never be trusting of
other dogs again. He was always such a trusting,
friendly guy.
Now the neighbors are all looking into legislation
and what can be done again. This comes up each
time something happens with those dogs. At the
moment, there's just a 10 day restraining order that
the dog has to be inside or on a leash at all times.
I'm not sure they're able to control their dogs on a leash.
The wild thing is that the owner is a vet tech. As near
as I can see, this means she knows all the right buzz
words to appease neighbors and Animal Control.
She throws around "voice control" and "reinforcement"
though her dogs are obviously untrained and dangerous.
The last time this came up, there was a petition going
around demanding breed legislation. I wrote asking
for a better alternative and put some suggested legislation
in the right hands. I'm not sure what the status of that
is at the moment.
--Lia
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:21:29 GMT
Subject: Re: Today
Rich wrote:
> What breed are the "2 large scary looking dogs ?"
Your question lets me know that I'm in trouble again
though I tried so hard to avoid it. I'll give you the
history before I answer your question.
I don't remember if you were around this group when
I posted 3 years ago about the time the attacking dog
(let's call him Gruber) walked through his invisible
fence and followed me briefly around the neighborhood
as I was walking my dog (we'll call this one Cubbe).
At that time, I mentioned the dogs' breeds (there are 2
behind the fence; only one got out) and how I was scared.
The dogs' stance and stare and body language all bespoke
something to be afraid of. With recent events, it should be
obvious that my fears were not unfounded.
Regulars on this list helped me sort out 2 issues. The
scary looking body language is separate from the scary
looking breed. The former is (was) a legitamate concern.
The latter was nothing more than my falling for hyped
fear mongering against certain breeds. I was guilty of
something I'd decry in someone else. I'm grateful to this
list for letting me rant and then helping me think more
clearly when I was upset.
That done, I was able to help my neighbors see
that a breed ban wasn't in our best interests.
The attacking dog is a Rottweiler. That's the one being
put down (killed). The owner also has a Pit Bull. Or
rather, he looks like a pit bull to me, but he's larger than
I normally think of them.
I don't know enough about the breed to say.
--Lia
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:42:01 GMT
Subject: Re: Today - unhappy conclusion
The owner of the attacking dog decided to have her
dog put down. That makes all the discussion of
fences and breed legislation and lawyers and
neighbors and petitions a moot point.
Or at least none of it is immediately necessary.
Over the long haul it makes sense to have good
laws in place. For the short term, I'm seeing a bad conclusion to a
bad event, but I can't say what I
would have liked better, not and be realistic about
it at the same time.
The good news is that Chief, the dog who was
attacked, is doing a bit better today. He's healing
as well as can be expected and has some energy.
In my Polyanna attitude of trying to find some good
in this, I'm taking some comfort in the lowkey sensible
attitude of the neighbors.
No one has resorted to threats or escalating violence
or even suggested that they wanted the attacking dog
dead or the owners run out of town.
All anyone has been pushing for this whole
time was a fence.
Hug your dogs.
--Lia
-------------------
And here's liea's own dog Cubbe
DOIN THE SAME THINGS:
Julia F N Altshuler (d0006...@dc.seflin.org)
Subject: 1 step forward, 2 steps back
Date: 2001-01-07 19:28:05 PST
Cubbe got out in the neighborhood leashless for the
first time in roughly 2 years. The first few times were
when we first got her before she'd had any training
and before we got the electric fence to reinforce the
physical one.
It was horrible. She paid us no attention, ignored
clickers and treats and calls. Make that, it was
horrible for us. She had a blast running free and
chasing whatever she wanted.
For us it was 45 minutes of sheer terror as we
tried to catch her.
Luckily there wasn't too much traffic yesterday
morning. It had snowed, and the streets weren't
quite clear yet. Jim finally caught her when she
was preoccupied with her head down a hole.
For 2 years I've been giving her a daily long walk in the
neighborhood. She now walks pretty nicely on a leash.
She gets daily indoor clicker training sessions.
She has perfect recalls in the house. She gets intermittent
treats for those recalls. She gets plenty of time to run free
in the backyard.
Her recalls are less reliable there, but I've been
working on them. I haven't been as good about
introducing the variable reinforcement there, but
I have been good about making sure that she's
never tricked into coming into the house when
she'd rather be outside. I always call her, give
her a treat or praise and let her go again.
So I haven't been a perfect dog trainer, but I don't
think I'm a terrible one. I say that because I'm about
to ask y'all for some help in correcting my mistakes,
and while I don't mind criticism for past mistakes, I
am hoping you'll concentrate on what I should do now.
Yesterday morning Cubbe had had some nice backyard
time. I'd gotten her into the house and was preparing to
leave when she escaped straight through the front door
and right in front of our noses.
She was still wearing the zap collar, but the
battery was low. She gave a small yip when
she went over the wire, and the chase ensued.
We were careful not to scold her once she was caught.
Today I let her out in the backyard with her usual zap
collar now with a fresh battery. She was waiting by the
backdoor to come in when I went to call her. From her
excited behavior, I could tell that she fully expected
to be let out the front door again so she could have
another fun romp in the neighborhood.
I'm so filled with anxiety from yesterday's
escapade that I keep checking for her every
time I open the door.
Later in the afternoon, she was much worse
about coming when called even from the backyard.
My specific questions:
How do I teach recalls when she so clearly knows
when she's in a confined space and when she isn't?
She normally only wears the zap collar when she's in the
backyard because the wire goes around the house and
could zap her when she's near certain windows inside.
If I let her get zapped at the front door with the zap collar,
can I still take the zap collar off and walk her out the front
door with her leash on?
I don't want her to become afraid of the front door.
What's the best emergency procedure if, god
forbid, it should happen again?
Might Cubbe be ready for harsher training techniques?
By this I mean, I've been using clicker and treats for
Cubbe because she so obviously freaked when we used
leash corrections and scoldings when we first got her.
I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll state
my opinion once and won't defend it further: any
method can be cruel for some dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for
Cubbe at the beginning, but we've come a long
way since then.
She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?
Last night we had friends over for dinner with their
3 daughters ages 14, 10 and 7. The girls loved Cubbe
and were having a blast clicker training her.
I was impressed with how quickly they caught on and
how little correction they needed to be consistent
with the clicks and treats.
Cubbe was fine with the children; she always
has been. Just as they were getting ready to
go, the 10 year old went to give Cubbe a hug.
Cubbe must have felt threatened and confined
because she gave a snarl-snap.
I was right there, and without thinking I quickly yelled,
turned Cubbe over on her back, got in the face and let
her know that no snarling is allowed. The girl wasn't
frightened at all, and her parents who were also right
there hadn't realized what had happened. I then asked
the snarlee to rub Cubbe's belly further to reinforce
that Cubbe is the submissive one in that relationship.
I let Cubbe up and all was fine.
I suppose that's another issue, but I bring it up as part
of wondering if Cubbe should be trained with punishments now.
Like I said, I did that without thinking, and now I think it
was the right thing to do. So how do I apply this to dealing
with Cubbe the escapee?
--Lia
===================
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3DC4A3BD.645A4FC9@attbi.com...
I need help deciding if I have a real problem with
Cubbe that needs immediate attention or if I'm
imagining trouble where there is none.
Here's what happened last April the way I described
it to a friend at the time:
I'm worried about Cubbe. Or rather, I'm kicking
myself for doing something stupid. Ellie has been
over many times and has always gotten along great
with Cubbe. Cubbe is always at the door when I let
Ellie in.
She's barky-protective but then stops barking once
Ellie is inside. She's never shown any real
aggression. The other night Ellie and I went out
together to run an errand.
Ellie was coming in the house with packages so
I came in first and put Cubbe in the bedroom with
Jim so Ellie could get through the door more easily.
I could hear Cubbe barking. Once Ellie was inside,
I opened the bedroom door for Cubbe. She ran out
to attack the intruder.
Ellie was trying to be friendly.
Ellie put a tooth in Ellie's finger. Granted the resulting
scratch was no worse than the way my cuticles bleed
when they get dry and I don't rub lotion into them every
night, but Ellie was understandably scared.
Jim ran out and got control of Cubbe right away.
I got Ellie some alcohol and a bandage. The scary
thing is that, even though the damage is minor, it
does qualify as a bite since Cubbe did mean to do it.
I guess I should just learn from it and never let
Cubbe greet someone like that again, but I'm
horribly torn up.
I've said that I would never keep an aggressive
dog. Now the whole issue is so complicated.
Cubbe is great even with kids when we meet
them in the neighborhood.
Since then I've been careful not to do anything like that.
Then Halloween night Cubbe spent most of the
night in the computer room with Jim while I answered
the door. She did bark each time she heard the
doorbell ring. We did nothing to discourage that.
We want her to be barky protective so
it made sense for her to bark when she
heard people in the neighborhood, especially
at night. Later in the evening, Jim put Cubbe
on a leash and was hanging out with her in the
front hall while I still got the door. One of the first
people to come to the door once she was out of the
computer room was our neighbor Nicky.
I think Nicky is 11 now. He's known Cubbe since
we got her 4 years ago, has always liked her, petted
her and asked to come on walks. Nick lifted his mask
on the porch so I'd know who it was.
Then I invited him into the hall to pet Cubbe.
Cubbe snarled and sort of air snapped at him.
Of course Jim was right there so no damage was
done. Nick didn't even have to draw his hand away,
and he didn't get scared.
Nothing scares that boy.
I don't like this. Twice now Cubbe has been overly
protective-aggressive when people have entered the
house.
Both times they've been people she knows and
should like. She's wonderfully nice to people on
walks. We don't have guests over too often so
I can't comment if it's a growing thing or not.
Comments please. Is this a major growing
aggression problem?
I'd guess it's territoriality about the house and yard.
What do I do about it?
I usually put Cubbe on a leash when friends come over
and then walk her outside while the friend gets out of
her car, and then we walk in together.
She'll still bark when they're in the house and then
calm down. Is that a good idea? Should I be
doing something more to make sure this doesn't
escalate?
--Lia
From: Julia Altshuler (jaltshu...@comcast.net)
Subject: Cubbe report: Chief
Date: 2003-09-12 21:04:11 PST
Chief if my neighbor Jo's 40# 1 1/2 year old Sheltie.
Jim has been running into them on his morning walks
with Cubbe. For a week he's been feeding me glowing
reports about how Cubbe is terrific with Chief.
Cubbe has never been particularly wonderful with any
other dog, so terrible in fact that I'd despaired at ever
seeing Cubbe frolic and play with other dogs.
I'd resigned myself to the idea that Cubbe is happy
with her people, her yard, her squirrels, her spot on
the couch, and that makes a pretty good life, one
that doesn't involve the companionship of her own
species. Jim's reports were encouraging.
Jim convinced Jo to bring Chief over for a playdate.
We put Cubbe on a leash so she could meet Chief
again on neutral territory. They sniffed as dogs
normally do.
Chief and Cubbe entered the front door. To my
amazement, all was fine. Out in the backyard
and off leash, Cubbe didn't pay much attention
to Chief, but there was no trouble even though
she and Chief were close to each other.
Both dogs seemed more interested that their
people were handing out treats (for good behaviors
like SITs).
Jim went into the house for some balls thinking the 2
dogs would like to chase them together. He did not
consult me about this hare brained scheme.
Jo and I were 5 feet away from the dogs when Cubbe
decided to attack Chief. She's not an experienced
fighter so I don't know if attack is the right word. She
was snarfing, making growly noises, jumping on Chief,
had her mouth on Chief's neck (on his back, behind his
ears) and basically not looking friendly, but I think if she'd
wanted to do real damage, she would have, and Chief
was fine, nary a hair out of place.
Naturally with us all right there, we were able to
intervene in seconds.
A second later, it was all over. Cubbe looked like she'd
like to be friends again, but Chief, while not running away
or anything was obviously spooked and keeping his distance.
Jo and Chief went home. (I went with them for chat and
apologies, but that's not part of the Cubbe story.)
Cubbe has never food or toy guarded with people.
Might she have been guarding the balls Jim brought
out? Or was it the fact that we let our guard down for
a few seconds and she got scared of Chief when we
all weren't practically on top of her?
Or did we push her too far by leaving her and
Chief together for too many minutes when a
few seconds would have been better for a first try?
Or other theories?
Do we continue trying to find a dog that will put up with
Cubbe? Or do we give up again and go back to letting
Cubbe live a dogless existence?
--Lia
===================
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author:
"CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
HOWE abHOWET that you was the FIRST miserable
stinkin lyin animal murderin punk thug coward active
acute chronic life long incurable MENTAL CASES to
REPORT The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy
And Horsey Wizard to HIS ISP and organized COMPLAIN
abHOWET The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And
Horsey Wizard campaigns for tellin you that your dog
Cubbe was TURNING ON YOU on accHOWENTA you
was jerkin chokin her on your pronged spiked pinch choke
collar an shockin her.
SEE?
BWEEEAAAHAAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
Here's liea's latest encHOWENTER of her
dog Cubbe ATTACKIN innocent children:
HOWEDY liea you pathetic miserable stinkin
lyin animal abusin punk thug coward active
acute chronic life long incurable mental case,
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshuler@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:QbKdnbim682xO6XbnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Suja wrote:
>>
>> Same here.
Seems suja's had her share of FEAR AGGRESSIVE DOGS.
>> Someone at the dog park who has Basenjis was playing
>> with one, and accidentally got nailed on his hand.
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM???
>> Since it was a puncture wound and bleeding profusely,
That's GOOD. Punctures seldom bleed
enough to prevent infection.
>> he went to the ER.
That's SHEER IDIOCY. All you gotta do with a dog
bite puncture wound is make it BLEED ALOT and
keep it CLEAN and OPEN to the air so's it'll heel.
The HOWEspitals like to bandage and stitch them,
which causes them to INFECT. And a tetnus shot
is IDOCY if the wound BLEEDS and is OPEN
as tetnus is a ANAROBIC DIS-EASE <{}: ~ ( >
>> He told them what happened, and
>> they called animal control.
Naaaah?
>> He had to quarantine his own dog, although everyone
>> knew full well that this was just an accident,
That's ABSURD. Dogs DON'T BITE by ACCIDENT.
ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR.
ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
>> and the dog was certainly UTD on all his vaccines.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
Giving vaccinations accordin to current veterinary
malpractice guidelines may CAUSE dogs to have
NO IMMUNITY.
>> When the same thing happened to another friend,
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM???
>> he told the ER folks that he messed up while doing
>> some work, and a nail got him. They knew it wasn't
>> a nail that got him,
Yeah? Are they PSYCHICS?
>> but didn't say anything.
Oh, they was DEAF MUTES?
> I've recently changed my mind
That's a GOOD THING, liea. Your old mind was for shit.
Hey liea? Didn't you momma teach you to say
'HOWEDY!" when talkin to folks or was you
raised by a ignorameHOWES like yourself <{}: ~ ( >
"The fruit don't fall far from the fruitcake,"
The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{}: ~ ) >
> on the rightness or wrongness
Oooops! PERHAPS you shoulda kept that old mind, eh liea?
You KNOW you've ALWAYS HAD PROBLEMS knowin
RIGHT from WRONG. THAT'S HOWE COME you're a
MENTAL CASE, remember, liea?
> of these laws.
SomeWON should make a LAW protecting J.Q. Pubic
from viciHOWES lyin animal abusin ignoreameHOWESES
like yourself, liea <{}: ~ ( >
> I used to think that it was wrong for the Law (by
> Law I mean the folks in the hospital ER, animal
> control, etc.) to punish a dog when person with
> the bite knew the dog had a rabies shot,
"PUNISH", liea? NO WON wants to PUNISH dogs
for biting. HOWEver, so long as you're MHOWENTING
your moral high horse, perhaps The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard will be a GENTLEMAN
an offer you a leg up, eh, liea?
> knew the bite was an accident,
There AIN'T NO SUCH THING
as a ACCIDENTAL bite, liea.
> and so on.
You're a dog abusin mental case, liea. What's your point?
> I could understand that a dog owner would lie
Naaaah?
> to protect his dog from the unfair punishment.
WHAAAT "PUNISHMENT", liea? You think bein
CONfined to a leash for ten days is PUNISHMENT?
Naaah. THAT AIN'T PUNISHMENT, liea. NOT
UNLESS you're jerkin an chokin IT on your PRONGED
SPIKED PINCH CHOKE collar.
> I've thought about it further and changed my mind.
You mean you changed your mind abHOWET
punishment, liea?
Or do you mean you changed your mind abHOWET
RIGHT an WRONG, liea? Sometimes it's difficult
for the SIMPLE Puppy Wizard to follow your
philosophical thinkin when you're up on your moral
high horse, like that talk abHOWET rape a while ago.
> If the punishment was something along the lines of
> "we have to put down (kill) any dog that bites
You mean like paul e. schone's RESCUE dog Muttley?
> even if you understand the circumstances
You mean like the two occasions IN janet's OBEDIENCE
CLASS when paulie was INSTRUCTED to JERK an
CHOKE Muttley to TEACH IT RESPECT for his G-D
like AUTHORITY, and Muttley WENT INSANE with
FEAR, liea?
And like HOWE every time your own FEAR
AGGRESSIVE dog Cubbe attacked he was
attackin someWON inside her SHOCK ZONE
or you was JERKIN an CHOKIN IT on your
PRONGED SPIKED PINCH CHOKE COLLAR
JUST LIKE HOWE paulie done when his
RESCUE dog Muttley GOT SCARED an
ATTACKED.
> and there's nothing you can do about it,"
Oh, you mean when dog lovers like yourselves finally
CONvince the legislatures that Pit Bull dogs are BAD?
> then sure it makes sense to lie to protect your dog.
Oh, you mean like when it's O.K. to STEAL a neighbor's
dog on accHOWENTA you don't like HOWE they're
keepin IT, liea, as booby maida and babbette haggerty
and judith althouse recommend us to do, liea?
> But a quarantine isn't a terrible punishment.
Naaah? Hey liea? It MIGHT be a TERRIBLE
PUNISHMENT if your dog ESCAPES your SURRHOWEND SHOCK SYSTEM and
attacks a neighbor's kid, or worse, gets into
the yard with the Rottweiller and won't come
back to you again, eh, liea?
THEN the cops would SHOOT YOUR DOG for you
UNLESS diddler or lois edwards BEAT THEM TO
THE PUNCH, eh?
> It's 2 weeks of not going off the owner's
> property or not being off a leash.
There's no need for a dog to be off leash UNLESS,
like your own dog Cubbe, they got a HISTORY of
ESCAPIN your SHOCK CON-TRAINED HOWES.
> Cubbe got one.
Naaah? You never mentioned THAT when your
fear aggressive dog Cubbe ATTACKED your only
friend Ellie. In fact, you never mentioned she went
to the HOWEspital either, liea.
> I don't even think she broke the kid's skin and
> as far as I'm concerned,
You mean you didn't LOOK, liea? What'd you do, run
HOWET on them like HOWE "news dog's" handler done?
> it was the kid's own fault.
But of curse, liea. What'd he do, stand in Cubbe's
SHOCK ZONE like them other two kids and your
only friend Ellie done?
> We'd said he could pet the dog
You mean your FEAR AGGRESSIVE dog Cubbe, liea?
Hey liea? You remember when you first started
OBEDIENCE TRAININ IT, and IT began to
TURN ON YOU for HURTIN her on your
PRONGED SPIKED PINCH CHOKE COLLAR?
> and gave instructions on how to do so properly.
Oh, you mean to offer IT a cookie an let IT smell the
back of your hand, offered from UNDERNEATH,
like a CHIN CHUCK, so the dog don't think you're
fixin to STRIKE IT liea?
Perhaps you can EXXXPLAIN again HOWE a
CHIN CHUCK AIN'T HITTIN THE DOG, liea,
and HOWE IT IS that a dog bein CHIN CHUCKED
don't KNOW it's the lyin dog abusin mental case with
the HANDS who HIT HIM?
> The kid promptly disobeyed every instruction.
Oh, you mean he went up to IT an sez 'HOWEDY' an
SCARED your FEAR AGGRESSIVE dog Cubbe?
> Cubbe got scared and gave a brief snap.
Naaah? She got a BAD HABIT of ATTACKIN
innocent defenseless critters, like that 12 year
old dog Chief, DHOWEN the street?
Hey liea? HOWE did you manage to get your neighbor
with the barkin Pit Bull to GET RID OF HER DOG?
Did you have to call animal CON-TROLL on her very
often?
> I'd have given the kid a kiss,
That'd be the kiss of death, eh, liea?
> a band-aid
You mean for the BITE he DIDN'T GET, liea?
> and lesson on listening to instructions,
You mean YOUR instructions, liea? Even a CHILD
knows you're a pathetic miserable stinkin lyin dog
an child abusin imbecile <{}: ~ ( >
> but the parents took him to the emergency
> room which got the Law involved.
"I don't even think she broke the kid's skin".
Perhaps you're in DENIAL, eh, liea?
> At the time, we were terrified that Cubbe would be killed.
Seems it was YOU who WANTED TO KILL HER, liea.
> We were white with fear for every part of the process.
Well that's NORMAL for a NATURAL BORN COWARD.
NHOWE you know HOWE your neighbor with the Pit
Bull felt when YOU MADE HER GET RID OF HER
DOGS on accHOWENTA THEY SCARED YOU.
> That involved going to the hospital with her rabies
> certificate (they thanked us for being so prompt),
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAHAAA!!!
> going to the police station for a dog-bite report
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAA!!!
> (the officer treated it like some stupid paperwork
Naaaah?
> and reassured us that we had nothing to worry about),
Yeah, it ain't HIS dog the Doggy Nazis will come after.
> letting the city's rabies inspector (the vet in town
> that we don't use) look at Cubbe (that's literally
> take her to his office where he looked at her,
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
> didn't touch her,
Of curse not. She COULD BE INFECTED with RABIES.
> and humorously called her the troublemaker)
> twice, once right away and again 10 days later.
Oh THAT'S on accHOWENTA she's ALWAYS BEEN
UN-CON-TROLLABLE at the vets, REMEMBER, liea?
IN FACT, your own FEAR AGGRESSIVE dog Cubbe
ATTACKED YOUR VETERINARIAN, remember
NHOWE, liea?
> During the 10 days she had to be on a leash when
> she left our property, something we do anyway.
Do you use a standard or CUSTOM MADE PRONGED
SPIKED PINCH CHOKE COLLAR, like janet SOLD
paulie an Muttley, liea?
> Like I said,
Not to be the grammar police, but it's like 'AS I SEZ', liea,
you pathetic university educaded IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >.
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> at the time we were railing against the stupid laws.
That so, liea?
> Thinking about it in retrospect,
You mean like HOWE when you think of as a
kid, goin to school in the little school bus, liea?
> I don't think the laws are overboard.
That's kindly of you, liea.
> I started to understand how serious rabies really is.
Rabies is only seriHOWES if you're a ignorameHOWES
an get yourself ATTACKED by a infected critter or pick
up sumpthin you shouldn't be touchin, liea.
> Sure it's unlikely that the kid was going to get
> rabies from that snap,
Your dog Cubbe MURDERS innocent defenseless
dumb wild critters, REMEMBER, liea?
> but given the fact that untreated rabies means DEATH,
> certain DEATH, certain horrible, preventable, DEATH,
> I relaxed my outrage.
Oh, so you let your FEAR CON-TROLL
your MIND, eh, liea?
> Yeah, we went to some trouble and some paperwork
> and a quarantine. Yeah, I wish the kid's parents taught
> their kids some manners.
Oh? Did the kid BITE the DOG, liea?
> (It's gotten to where no one in the neighborhood
> wants anything to do with them.
That so? Does their ill mannered KID attack very
often, like HOWE YOUR OWN FEAR AGGRESSIVE
HOWETA CON-TROLL dog Cubbe has done ON
THREE OCCASIONS with people and WON with
your vet and at least WON with the old dog DHOWEN
the street, liea?
That's like FIVE BITES your own FEAR AGGRESSIVE
DOG Cubbe has done on INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
PEOPLE, not countin the DOG she attacked and probably
a few others you ain't mentioned.
BY ANY STANDARDS CUBBE SHOUL DIE.
UNLESS she's a POLICE DOG attackin HOODLUM KIDS
and a HOWEsbreaker personal friend and a HOWEstile vet.
Let's talk abHOWET the LAW in your
city regardin DOG BITES, liea?
> They're too out of control and spoiled, won't listen
> to anyone, goes way beyond manners with dogs.)
Shameful, eh, liea?
> Now we tell kids and parents that we're
> sorry but that they can't pet this dog.
You mean on accHOWENTA WON BAD APPLE
ruinin all the FUN for everyWON else, liea? That's
just what the Pit Bull people worry abHOWET, liea.
WON BAD EXXXAMPLE like Cubbe gettin their
fear aggressive Pit Bulls taken away from them by
the Doggy Nazis <{}: ~ ( >
> The other day I relaxed the rule
You mean you CHANGED YOUR MIND AGAIN, liea?
> and let the neighbors' kid (the neighbors
> I do like) pet Cubbe.
PERHAPS your FEAR AGGRESSIVE dog Cubbe
ATTACKED the child on accHOWENTA she KNEW
you didn't LIKE him, liea?
> All went well.
You mean you GOT LUCKY, liea?
> I'd say it makes sense to the tell the folks in the
> emergency room the truth about injuries
Hey assHOWEL? Wouldn't it make MOORE sense
to TELL THE KID your dog ATTACKS CHILDREN?
> even where there's a beloved dog involved.
You mean a dog you'd have to MURDER on accHOWENTA IT ATTACKS innocent
defenseless
dumb critters on accHOWENTA you JERK an
CHOKE IT on your PRONGED SPIKED PINCH
CHOKE COLLAR an SHOCK IT, liea?
> --Lia
------------------------------
SEE?
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAA!!!
Hey liea? Remember when you used to post daily
and weekly WARNINGS to KILLFILE the only
poster who knows HOWE to TRAIN ALL dogs
and ALL BEHAVIORS NEARLY INSTANTLY
simply by DOIN EVERY THING EXXXACTLY
PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you pathetic
miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin mental
cases been doin it, liea?:
163 for author:jaltshu...@attbi.com "occasional post"
OT: occasional post-Broken rib-DOGS DON'T WORK CREDIT
.... I try to notify each new person who posts with the
following "occasional post" to help new people learn
to killfile faster and to waste less time in public argument.
I hope the following helps. ...
Jun 17 2002 by Julia Altshuler - 15 messages - 9 authors
OT: occasional post-this newsgroup-I'm outa here
And if you blocked the arguing, you'd see only a nice
helpful friendly group. Not only that, if you didn't post
messages like the one you just did, you wouldn't be
adding to the problem. --
Lia ...
Mar 12 2003 by Julia Altshuler - 55 messages - 20 authors
OT: occasional post-4 month old puppy still pees in her
box...help ...
I post this informational message occasionally. I try
to post it in answer to first posts by people who might
not be familiar with this newsgroup or anywhere else
it might be useful. This is rec.pets.dogs.behavior (rpdb). ..
Apr 25 2002 by Julia Altshuler - 14 messages - 5 authors
OT: occasional post-this newsgroup-Barking. Help please
John, Please don't answer him or copy his messages.
The rest of us have him killfiled and wouldn't know he
was there if you didn't.
Here's the canned message with more information: This
message ...
Mar 14 2003 by Julia Altshuler - 10 messages - 7 authors
---------------------------
BWEEEAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAA!!!
From: abadabracadab...@aol.com (ABADABRACADABRAH)
Date: 17 Aug 2004 15:54:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Eggplant ! Eggplant! []
> Subject: Eggplant ! Eggplant! []
> From: Julia Altshuler jaltshu...@comcast.net
> Date: 8/17/04 11:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> Please, folks. Remember to label your posts when you're
> arguing with trolls. So many threads are troll arguments
> these days that I can't keep track of which ones to delete
> without reading. We either do or do not have new
> annoyances.
>
> Either way, label them with the [eggplant] tag.
> I'm quick to killfile everybody.
You're INSANE, liea.
>--Lia
HOWEDY liea,
> Subject: Re: house training problem [ninnyboy]
> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:57:02 GMT
> The dog groups have a newsgroup nut
You shock and jerk and choked your dog Cubbe till
she ATTACKED your only friend and tied to attack
a couple kids and did attack your neighbor's old
dog.
> who yells at everyone and never goes away.
You're a lying dog abusing MENTAL CASE, liea.
> Just ignore him, or put him in your killfile.
Perhaps you should bring back your occasional
daily and weekly warnings?
> That's what everyone else does.
That so? HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard is the most pupular topic in the Whole
Wild World amongst dog lovers?
> Whatever you do, don't copy his messages.
You're a paranoid mental case, liea.
> That's a lot of bandwidth.
You're a DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE, liea.
>--Lia
135 results for insubject: occasional post
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@attbi.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 03:46:53 GMT
Subject: OT: occasional post-this newsgroup
He *is* nuts. Don't answer him.
--Lia
This message is posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior (r.p.d.b.)
regularly and occasionally to other newsgroups including
alt.animals.dog, rec.pets.dogs.rescue, alt.pets.dog, and
rec.pets.dogs.misc. These are unmoderated groups meaning
that no one checks the messages to make sure they're on-
topic, civil or sensible before they go through.
The purpose of this occasional posting is to give information
about the newsgroup so that discussion about the newsgroup
itself is cut down and discussion about dogs increases.
Like so many usenet groups, this group has people who
post annoyingly and constantly, people who post angry
and abusive messages, people who post to irritate others.
It's up to individuals to decide which posters bother them.
Here are some guidelines that many people follow to
make this newsgroup pleasant and informative:
1. Use your killfile. A killfile (or filter) makes invisible
posts by any particular person or with any particular words
in the subject line.
The posts are still there, but they don't show up on the
screen of the person using the killfile. Look at
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm
for instructions.
2. Don't make more noise. The only thing more annoying
than a troll is an otherwise rational person arguing with or
about a troll.
That's known as feeding the trolls. Please don't feed the
trolls. It really is insane to attempt rational discussion with
the insane.
3. Want to exercise your right to free speech and argue
about or with trolls anyway? Put "ninnyboy" in the
subject line. That way the people who want to join the
fracas can, and those who don't can opt out by killfiling
"ninnyboy." If you don't do this, expect to be killfiled
yourself. [Jerry], with the brackets is also a recognized
signal.
4. Figured out that arguing with trolls is useless but
still want to talk about trolls by referring to them in
the third person? Put "ninnyboy" in the subject line
then too. That subject is boring too.
5. Trim quoted posts to include only the part you're
responding to. Quoting an entire long post in order to
respond to only a small piece of it is annoying. Again,
if you don't do this, expect to be killfiled.
6. Understand Candace. Candace is an automatic
program that answers troll posts automatically,
repetititively and relentlessly.
Most of us find these posts boring after a
short while and killfile it too.
That's O.K. You can't hurt its feelings.
7. Show no fear. Have a question or need to admit that
you've made errors in dog training in the past? This is
still a good place to come for (often contradictory) advice.
Use your own judgment to decide what advice to follow
and what not to. No harm can come to you even if people
vehemently disagree, call you names or repost your old
messages.
8. Label off-topic threads as "OT." A label helps people
decide what to read and what not to.
9. Check the F.A.Q. for answers to frequent non-
complicated questions.
10. Don't post pictures. This is not a binary newsgroup.
That's plain text only, no HTML, no attachments. If you'd
like, post a pointer to a website with pictures on it.
11. Don't crosspost. It's bad enough when someone posts
something dog related to all the groups having to do with
dogs. It's worse when totally unrelated groups get tossed
in the mix. Feel like you absolutely have to jump in on
something that's been crossposted to unrelated groups?
Erase the extraneous ones when you answer.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:53:18 GMT
Subject: OT - Should I bring back the occasional post?
The subject line says it all.
When I started posting the occasional post, the idea
was to help new people understand what's going on with
the annoyances on this newsgroup.
I wanted to help them understand that anything they had
to say on the subject had been said before, wouldn't do
any long term good and would bore a bunch of people in
the short term. I stopped because I wasn't sure I was
accomplishing my goal. Now I'm not so sure. I'm seeing
so many unmarked arguments with the annoyances.
Any opinions?
I'm not taking a vote, but I do care what the regulars think.
For new people, the occasional post is as follows. Do you
think that seeing it when you first started posting would
have helped?
Would it be more useful if it weren't so precise and wordy?
Maybe something shorter? I'm thinking it needs an update.
--Lia
-------------
SEE?
Told ya so.
Oh, and bye the bye, liea, you can't
post here nodoGdameneDMOORE.
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ooO Ooo